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Blue
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Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 08:58 pm |
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Yeah, I was watching a confrence yesterday and one of the world leaders made the observation that it was International banks seeking assistance from individual nations.
Really ... in order to have proper oversight it would take some kind of international governing body.
You know what's wierd is if the international banking community intentionally created this situation then the bailout is nothing more than paid extortion money.
I doubt there's anything to it though.
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Alistair Trevalian
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Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 10:15 pm |
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my opinion on signing...
first let me state that i signed up because i was at rock bottom. i was going to college for a a bit but my FA fell out from under me and i lost everything... my scholarship went to a foreign exchange student who could barely speak english and i was stuck paying off the debt of my first years tuition (without getting the benefits of the semester and a half i had already completed.) i had to find a way to get back on my feet and being young and naive i jumped right into the service without much research or long time decision making... and now i've been stop-lossed twice deployed 3 times and i have lost all ties to a life i had before i signed.
now for my opinion...
joining the military is not at all a bad thing. but you have to go about it the right way and you have to WANT to do it. if you are feeling backed into a corner and the military seems like your only way out of it... i would suggest rethinking your situation and possibilities, because they will take away any aspirations you have just as fast as you can raise your right hand...
now back to the topic...
i can just honestly say that im glad that the economy is at least viewed as a problem by our new president. at least options are being tried. it may not be the right one but its better than sitting around and THINKING about how to fix the problem.
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theosophia
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Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 11:14 pm |
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Cainad2.0 wrote: Anyone who believes that the bailout money is going to be spent helping the economy recover is a fool. Congress signed the banks a blank check, with ZERO oversight.
They were advised to use the money for lending, i.e. redistribute it into the economy and get the lines of credit flowing again. When asked what they were actually doing with the money, they laughed and said they didn't have to tell anyone squat, and hand over the next couple billion please.
(By the way, we already know that some of that money has gone to executive bonuses)
Yup.
Exactly right.
Anyone who believes anything said by Congress especially in the past few months is a fool. Goes double for believing anything coming from those banks & businesses who were in the middle of the problem in the first place.
By the way ... I haven't run into anyone yet who thinks that this so-called "bail-out" was actually a good idea. Kinda gives you a hint about how much Congress cares about what anyone actually thinks.
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Blue
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 01:06 am |
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Alistair Trevalian wrote :
i can just honestly say that im glad that the economy is at least viewed as a problem by our new president. at least options are being tried. it may not be the right one but its better than sitting around and THINKING about how to fix the problem.
Blue:
I'm not sure that I understood. I take it that you don't see much value in sitting around a message board discussing the state of the world ?
It's a talk is cheap, action is precious kinda thing ?
I dunno ... maybe i misunderstood.
Could you explain further ?
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Alistair Trevalian
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 01:51 am |
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certainly...
correct me if im wrong but it seems you have the notion i was refering to us, the members of this message board, as the ones sitting around THINKING about the problem.
and if thats the case i must assure you that i am not. i am just stating that the president has ideas (maybe not good ones that will actually work) but he is making a conscious effort it seems. more so than G.W. (who was more focused on the war) and his previous economic stimulus plan (which i kinda liked that extra money coming back to me) but it did not help matters in the slightest. he shouldnt be trying to fix the worlds problems when he has problems in his own country to worry about.
and no i dont see much value in it except a peace of mind that others either agree with my opinion or can enlighten me on a better one. what more value is there? unless one of you is a member of congress or an advisor in the presidents cabinet.
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Blue
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 02:18 pm |
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I think the thing with G.W.'s administration was that the war and the economy were closely linked together.
One way to bring your adversary to his knees in a conflict is to destroy his economy.
It's no secret that we have pissed off the arab world. OPEC turned around and drove energy prices through the roof which triggered hyperinflation. That just set off a chain of economic events which left us where we are today.
A very similar thing happened during the Nixon - Carter era. That economic recession came close to putting us under.
I think the same possibility exists today. The 800 lb gorilla in the room we can't ignore is the national debt. Ten and a half Trillion dollars .....
If our economy were going full steam ahead we might be able to manage it somehow but seeing as it's tanked I just don't know. It could end us. I think that's something one has to consider as a possibility.
Going back to the OP I think we have to be very mindful that every dollar we spend that increases the debt only pushes us just that much closer to the abyss.
< sigh> There's gonna come a point .....
We may have already passed it ....
----------------------------------------------------
On the other aspect though. You know ... talking things over. I think there's value in it. We have alot of different people bringing things to the table.
The Obama team has been sponsoring political foums similar to this one where people can get together and talk things over.
You know ... there's alot of power in the group mind. There's an interconnectedness on the web. Thoughts and ideas tend to flow freely across it.
Put a million minds at a thousand different sites to work on a problem and who knows what solutions they are apt to come up with.
Last edited on Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 02:32 pm by Blue
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firesong
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 05:01 pm |
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I think the same possibility exists today. The 800 lb gorilla in the room we can't ignore is the national debt. Ten and a half Trillion dollars . ....
The only reason the gorilla exists at all is due to the severe lack of testicles in our current and past leadership, both parties.
To make it go away, all we need is an Executive order to begin printing our own money on a gold or silver standard, and then tell the banksters to bugger off...
Of course... it got Lincoln and Kennedy killed, but hey... no risks no glory, right?
Like any other loan, any money we get from the fed on a signature, created a security that is recorded as an asset in their books, and used as the basis other loans of many times the original amount. The truth is, any loan we get from the fed is repaid within hours or days, several times over, and we are still left to pay it back with interest...
The National Debt is nothing but an accounting enery; the sooner people realize this the better.
Last edited on Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 05:05 pm by firesong
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theosophia
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 05:15 pm |
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firesong wrote: Of course... it got Lincoln and Kennedy killed, but hey... no risks no glory, right?
Like any other loan, any money we get from the fed on a signature, created a security that is recorded as an asset in their books, and used as the basis other loans of many times the original amount. The truth is, any loan we get from the fed is repaid within hours or days, several times over, and we are still left to pay it back with interest...
The National Debt is nothing but an accounting enery; the sooner people realize this the better.
Kennedy wanted to go back to a gold standard? I don't think I'd heard that before. Do you have a reference?
Last edited on Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 05:15 pm by theosophia
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firesong
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 05:39 pm |
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theosophia wrote: firesong wrote: Of course... it got Lincoln and Kennedy killed, but hey... no risks no glory, right?
Like any other loan, any money we get from the fed on a signature, created a security that is recorded as an asset in their books, and used as the basis other loans of many times the original amount. The truth is, any loan we get from the fed is repaid within hours or days, several times over, and we are still left to pay it back with interest...
The National Debt is nothing but an accounting enery; the sooner people realize this the better.
Kennedy wanted to go back to a gold standard? I don't think I'd heard that before. Do you have a reference?
I'll have to check.. I know that he signed an Executive Order abolishing the Federal Reserve System...
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 05:39 pm |
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I think we might need juat a little more than that.
Of course, Blue, the war was closely linked to the economy. You can't spend THAT much money and ignore it.
Speaking as an old Ranger, I am reminded of the "minor" falling out between Neal Boortz and the Libertarian candidate Bob Barr. It irked Boortz that Barr referred to our troops as "occupying" force, as Neal believes they're a "liberating" force. I am with Barr. The first couple of months, we liberated all kinds of people from all kinds of stuff. That was a L O N G time ago.
If the current administration wants to withdraw forces, the best way, IMO, is to either prosecute the war or just plain pull the plug. AND send them a BILL.
Hell's Bells! We can ALWAYS go BACK! We've proven that!
We kept hearing "War for Oil!"....we should be swimming in forty-nine cent gas and fifty cent heating oil. Well....why CAN'T we GET it? What's wrong with them paying the bill for us getting rid of Saddam? They're pulling BILLIONS out of the ground and living in cinder-block-and-sheet-metal hovels. Let's have it! If an exterminator came and got the rats out of your house, he would expect to be PAID. I'm all for humanitarianism, but isn't that what the chocolate the Marines give the children is for?
It's a way to pay down some of the WAR debt.
I'm not convinced that a WPA or CCC styled project could work. There's a couple of articles I have read in Newsweek online and others that praise the way it worked in the "old days", but I can't see it happening again. What they did in months back then would take us years to fight over now.....even WITH the bi-cameral Dem majority. They have done away with the terms "pork barrel" and "earmarks" and substituted "shovel-ready project". Swell. $85M for a "disc golf" course in Austin. I like frisbees, I really do. I can take one outside and my dog will dutifully bring it back to me for HOURS. $85M? Of MY MONEY? You have GOT to be kidding. Anyone who believes THAT one to be worthwhile should get to rehab. NOW.
Another thing...this rabid "wealth envy" that's going on. YES, I AGREE that there are abuses, but MOST of the time, they salaries and bonuses are eithre earned or given on a contractually negotiated basis. If company "A" is $100M in the hole, and they hire Joe Smith to bail them out, and they say that 25% of everything he saves out of that $100M is his as a bonus, and he saves the company $40M, He gets, by CONTRACT, $10M. Worth it? To Company "A" it is! YOU don't think so.....hmmmm....could YOU do it? I have thought for years that the salaries paid to "professional" athletes is above and beyond exorbitant. Doing something, ANYTHING, with a ball for an hour or two...$5M? $10M? $85M over 4 years?
BUT....could I do it? Nope. Can you? Then get out there and do it so you won't have to sweat your job moving to the Dominican Republic or Viet Nam. Oh, YOU can't do it either? How about the first question? No, huh. Well....THEY CAN. And DO. If THAT is what the stockholders believe he's worth, them GAWDS BLESS him! If the fans think that pitcher or quarterback is worth all thos millions.....GAWDS BLESS him! This is America. We have a BIRTHRIGHT to ANY and EVERY dime we can get someone else to pay us.....and that stack of dimes has NO height restriction.
Let me take a second to stipulate...IF a company or agency receives a NICKLE of bailout money, ALL orders for corporate aircraft should be cancelled. Putting the money into a business that's failing badly enough to get those bucks should force said company to do a bit of streamlining, and "replacing" a couple of four-year-old, $30M aircraft with a new $50M one is NOT "streamlining". Paying your people what you owe them is only fair, REGARDLESS of the amount in question....redecorating the executive boardroom is not. So as I said, YES there are abuses and "incongruences", but I ALSO believe that they're not as widespread as the Communist News Network or MESSNBC would have you believe. Wait...did I type that out loud? Hmmm...I forgot. There's no such thing as "left-wing media bias". Or gravity, for that matter. The world just sucks.
Last edited on Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 05:40 pm by Corvus_Antiquus
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firesong
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 06:03 pm |
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firesong wrote: theosophia wrote: firesong wrote: Of course... it got Lincoln and Kennedy killed, but hey... no risks no glory, right?
Like any other loan, any money we get from the fed on a signature, created a security that is recorded as an asset in their books, and used as the basis other loans of many times the original amount. The truth is, any loan we get from the fed is repaid within hours or days, several times over, and we are still left to pay it back with interest...
The National Debt is nothing but an accounting enery; the sooner people realize this the better.
Kennedy wanted to go back to a gold standard? I don't think I'd heard that before. Do you have a reference?
I'll have to check.. I know that he signed an Executive Order abolishing the Federal Reserve System...
Actually, Kennedy's order didn't abolish the Federal Reserve, but it essentially pulled it's teeth. There is a clause in the original bill that set up the Fed that allows us to buy it back for $1billion... cheap if you ask me...
http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/naij2.html
http://www.michaeljournal.org/lincolnkennedy.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110
Last edited on Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 07:20 pm by firesong
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Blue
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 11:12 pm |
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Ok guys ... just a couple of quickies if you've got a minute or two.
The First:
We have a treaty in place with the Iraqui government. There's a sixteen month timetable for withdrawal of our forces from their country.
Quite possibly, we may redeploy those resources to Afghanistan.
Considering that our armed services have already been taxed out to the breaking point is this a good idea? This is what we are looking at.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/Obama.afghan/index.html
Secondly:
Let's hope that our economic recovery package works. None the less ... I really think we have to consider what may go down if their efforts fail.
You hope the day never comes but it's like the Boy Scout Motto " Be Prepared "
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/02/02/zimbabwe.dollars/index.html
This is real life mind you ... We should be keeping an eye out for stories like this over the coming months.
Just as the Bear Sterns collapse was a harbinger of the financial system crisis what's happening in Zimbabwe may be the first in the monetary collapse of many other nations.
Last edited on Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 11:14 pm by Blue
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firesong
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 11:18 pm |
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Blue wrote: Ok guys ... just a couple of quickies if you've got a minute or two.
The First:
We have a treaty in place with the Iraqui government. There's a sixteen month timetable for withdrawal of our forces from their country.
Quite possibly, we may redeploy those resources to Afghanistan.
Considering that our armed services have already been taxed out to the breaking point is this a good idea? This is what we are looking at.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/Obama.afghan/index.html
Secondly:
Let's hope that our economic recovery package works. None the less ... I really think we have to consider what may go down if their efforts fail.
You hope the day never comes but it's like the Boy Scout Motto " Be Prepared "
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/02/02/zimbabwe.dollars/index.html
This is real life mind you ... We should be keeping an eye out for stories like this over the coming months.
Just as the Bear Sterns collapse was a harbinger of the financial system crisis what's happening in Zimbabwe may be the first in the monetary collapse of many other nations.
Dude... have you read the "Economic Recovery Package"? It's got money in it for absolutely everything... erm... except... economic recovery. Sit and watch you want... I know a pig in a poke when I see one...
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 11:48 pm |
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Blue wrote: You hope the day never comes but it's like the Boy Scout Motto " Be Prepared "
cheaperthandirt dot com.
emergencyessentials dot com
nra dot org
I AM prepared.
Last edited on Tue Feb 3rd, 2009 11:48 pm by Corvus_Antiquus
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Alistair Trevalian
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Posted: Wed Feb 4th, 2009 01:43 am |
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well i've been over here in afghanistan for 6 months now... (9 more to go!!!)
and guess what? we have not accomplished anything but giving people blankets and such the whole time we have been here... we have made no progress with these people. so i think its time to just go home and call it a day...
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Corvus_Antiquus
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Posted: Wed Feb 4th, 2009 01:50 am |
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Alistair Trevalian wrote: well i've been over here in afghanistan for 6 months now... (9 more to go!!!)
and guess what? we have not accomplished anything but giving people blankets and such the whole time we have been here... we have made no progress with these people. so i think its time to just go home and call it a day...
May the G/ds watch over you til you're safe at home.
And as I said....we can ALWAYS go BACK!
Last edited on Wed Feb 4th, 2009 01:51 am by Corvus_Antiquus
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Alistair Trevalian
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Posted: Wed Feb 4th, 2009 02:46 am |
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Corvus_Antiquus wrote: Alistair Trevalian wrote: well i've been over here in afghanistan for 6 months now... (9 more to go!!!)
and guess what? we have not accomplished anything but giving people blankets and such the whole time we have been here... we have made no progress with these people. so i think its time to just go home and call it a day...
And as I said....we can ALWAYS go BACK!
yes we can, because now is not the time to be worrying about this.
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LadyTrojans01
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 05:16 am |
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Corvus_Antiquus wrote: This harkens back to the "letter from the boss" in that it is giving a ton of money to the "non-productive" at the expense of the (next several-dozen generations of), productive.
So they changed the name "earmarks" to "shovel-ready projects". A 36-hole "disc golf" course, (read that:frisbee!), in Austin.
Do I smell RIBS?
What are you trying to say with the word RIBS? By the way, can I know why do they change the name "earmarks" to "shovel-ready projects"? Are you saying that "shovel-ready projects" means a 36-hole "disc golf" course?
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